Hydrosol Questions

Hey Cheryl,

One thing about long posts with lots of questions .. they generally go
to the bottom of the stack when folks answer cause they become major
projects. ;-p But I'm happy to see that you have so many questions and
also that they are very pertinent questions.

> Hi everyone,
>
> Hope this finds you feeling a bit better Chris. We just got over
> the flu up here. I re-read all of Butch's posts and the additional
> testimonies about using Oregano. I must say it worked great for me.

Glad they do .. I hope Oregano EO continues to work well for you and I
believe it will.

> I added some to my soup everyday.

Hawhawhaw ... Many folks think nothing of adding EOs to their food ...
but that's not really ingesting - is it? ;-p

> My life partner did not feel comfortable ingesting so he sniffed
> from the bottle. It took him twice as long to feel better.

It'll work .. of course, the quickest way to get something into the
blood is injection .. not pertinent for essential oils. But I expect
that inhalation is more rapid than ingestion .. though its not just a
matter of getting them into the bloodstream at this point .. that is,
when we're trying to kick Big Bad Bug Butts.

> My question is: Does anyone drink water with oregano hydrosol
> (actually any of the hydrosols)added to it? If not why not? If
> so is it safe to do so and how did it help you?

Marilyn Nicolson and her husband do this regularly .. Butch Owen drinks
Oregano Hydrosol weekly .. as does Professor Dr. Husnu Baser and his
family (says he) .. and so do many of the people in Turkey. Oregano
Hydrosol is available in supermarkets. Its great for stomach problems
and is a immune system builder .. among other things.

> I like Suzanne Catty's book on 'Hydrosols The Next Aromatherapy',
> but would like other opinions.

Since its the only book out on Hydrosols its the one folks use .. but I
am sure she will make many corrections if/when she reprints it. There's
a need for that. Suzanne Catty's book is not perfect - like every other
book in print, it has problems and we gotta be careful not try to create
doctrine based on a book. Just in the first few pages we find ...

On page 12:

"Water with fragrance oil or other synthetic comnpounds added to it is
not hydrosol, nor are the cohobated distillation waters, with the
exception of rose and melissa, which are virtually unavailable in any
other form."

My comments .. TRUE and FALSE. TRUE that the two mentioned are always
cohobated but they are not necessarily the only ones cohobated. FALSE
in that cohobation is not an issue that would preclude ANY cohobated
waters from being hydrosols. Cohobation is only undertaken when an
inordinately high percentage of an expensive EO remains in the waters.
Depending on cost of the oil, energy and labor cost, and the percentage
of oil that could probably be recovered versus those overhead costs, a
decision is made to cohobate or not to cohobate.

Then Suzanne Catty writes: "Cohobation means the hydrosols are recycled
repeatedly through the plant material in the still to extract the
maximum amount of water-soluable components.

My comments: This is FALSE - it is not done that way and I think she
must have asked someone's opinion on this rather than having witnessed
what she is writing about herself. The reasons it is untrue are:

1. There is no repeated recycling.

2. The waters are not recycled though the spent plant material.

3. There would be no reason to do it as the plant materials have given
up all the essential oil they will give with the first distillation. It
is not a matter of trying to recover more EO from the spent plant matter
but rather an exercise to recover more EO from the distilled waters.

4. The plant materials remaining from a hydro-distillation of rose
petals, for example, are such that it couldn't be done if one wanted to
because they are packed solid as a rock after distillation.

The facts on cohobation following production of Rose Otto: The heavily
oil-laden waters are cohobated in a separate still ONE TIME to retrieve
the lion's share (75% or more) of the Rose Otto - Rose Otto is (I think)
a bit more hydrophilic than some other essential oils.

I didn't get past page 15 yet, and I'm not one to get down on folks who
write books because its a very difficult undertaking. BUT, the errors I
speak of add to the ignorance, rumor, misinformation and disinformation
that is common in this cottage-industry. I don't think avoiding comment
or challenge is right. When we write a book, we are open for criticism.

> 1. On page 46 (top of the page) she says that drinking neroli
> hydrosol in your water will help relieve stress.

I have no personal info on that .. it might be true and it might be
extrapolation based on the known therapeutic properties of Neroli.
Search AT books and we'll find lots of extrapolation .. and much of it
is based on attempts to transfer therapeutic values of plant materials
to the distilled oils.

If we find someone who claims to have experience with all the oils and
what they do for us, we'll find a world class BS'er .. methinks.

> 2. On the same page under Hydrosol Remedies she states"
> Hydrosols can be used the same way as the tincture in homeopathy."

I don't know beans about homeopathy. Lots of folks on this list do.

> 3. What is the best way for someone to test the hydrosols in
> their home? Especially those people who have difficulty reading
> those chemical strips.

What are we testing for? The percentage of EO in a hydrosol depends on
the hydrosol. Those that are produced from expensive materials, like
Rose Otto and Melissa, are always cohobated so the percentage will be
like 1% or so .. less expensive ones like Tea Tree, Rosemary, Oregano
and the like can go much higher .. as much as 10% or more. I don't test
my hydrosols because I test the oils from which the hydrosol remained
after distillation .. to me, testing further would be a waste of money
as it would not tell me about purity and quality .. or EO percentage.

> 4. On page 143 she discusses a meter for measuring pH content.
> Does anyone know what this meter is and if it is easy to read by
> the non-chemist?

When Martin Watt visited me here in Turkey, I took him to the lab of my
Rose Otto producer .. they produce Rose Creams, Shampoos and such .. and
we had the chemist test the pH on my new Rose Hydrosol. We could read
the results on his pH meter and neither of us had special training.

> I would love to check out Rock Rose. Suzanne talks about a
> hydrosol which means that there is eo, correct?

Rock Rose or Labdanum (Cistus ladanifer) essential oil is RARE .. its
produced from distillation of the gum. Concrete and Absolutes are the
norm for this aromatic. But to say that the existence of a Hydrosol
means there is an EO is not necessarily a good conclusion .. like the
folks selling Jasmine hydrosol. ;-) If we wanna find Jasmine hydrosol
we gotta make it ourselves cause its not commercially viable. We can
make it ourselves .. and many other things .. if we have a table top
still .. see http://www.AV-AT.com/stovestill2.html

> Is so would someone be kind enough to direct me to a source
> (off-list of course)?

I'd like for them to do it on-list. Might be interesting. ;-p

> 5. Has anyone come up with a range of pH of different hydrosols
> that would assist home users to know their hydrosols are within
> acceptable ranges?

Acceptable range for what .. dermal application? A hydrosol is going
to have pretty much the same pH everytime .. its just a matter of what
it is when it exits that still. One reason to test pH is to see if the
seller has added a synthetic preservative (there exists NO safe, natural
preservatives) to the hydrosol. Many do .. and still claim that their
products are natural. Methinks adding synthetics to something takes
away the ability to claim they're totally natural .. and I don't use
preservatives in my hydrosols. But the main point is that the addition
of a preservative will lower the pH .. any EO chemist can detect it.

> 6. Suzanne states, (page 169), that hydrosols are safe undiluted
> on the skin. If hydrosols are safe to use undiluted on the skin,
> should we still not watch out for sensitizing?

YES ... we should be concerned with sensitization .. depending on the
frequency of use if we are not sensitized already and if we are, then
one time will probably be enough to kick our butt. Its NOT TRUE that
all hydrosols are safe to use undiluted on the skin. Its a matter of
the approximate percentage of EO in the hydrosol. I can tell you that
my Oregano Hydrosol has a higher percentage of EO than has been tested
as a safe for dermal application .. per Plant Aromatics.

> Many aromatherapists have used lavender neat and as Marge says,
> become sensitized.

Yep ... and there's more and more cases of Aussies becoming sensitized
to Tea Tree for the same reason. Nothing bothers me more than seeing
(50 times a month) folks saying NO essential oils should be used neat
EXCEPT Lavender and Tea Tree. Its just not true and they don't even go
to the trouble of identifying the botanical name of the Lavender they
claim is safe. Try to argue with them and they get upset .. say they
have been doing it for years and humma-humma. Fact is, they've just
been lucky .. like folks who drive drunk for years and haven't died yet.

> Wouldn't these people be unable to use Lavender Hydrosol neat
> because hydrosols still contain essential oils even if they
> don't contain "all" the properties of the oil?

CORRECT .. they should NOT use them. The fact that a Hydrosol will more
closely resemble the actual chemical profile of the plant than will an
EO is not the point here. Granted, the EO will only have the non-water
soluable chemical components .. and the Hydrosol will have that plus the
water soluable components. But odds are better than great that a person
who became sensitized in the first place did so from using an EO .. not
from using a hydrosol. And the EO is in the Hydrosol. Beside that, it
is not the EO the person is sensitized to .. its one or more of the
chemical components of the EO. Those same chemical compounds might be
found in their favorite food and they will react the same way then.

> Drug Interactions: Page 185
>
> quote: " There are many reference books available on pharmaceutical
> drugs, which include their side effects and information about
> contraindications and possible effects in combination with other
> drugs and chemicals."....."So cross-referencing eo's with
> pharmaceuticals can be very important.

I don't understand how or why ??? Prescription or OTC drugs will almost
always be cloned or isolated component mixtures whereas the EO will be
as close to a natural synergy as we can get through distillation ..
which of course, is not a natural state of affairs in the first place.
But the important thing is that through a process of natural selection
and evolution - or survival of the fittest .. the natural product will
contain counterbalances to its own negative sides. Not true for the
synthetic. Also, man has evolved along with plants and the DNA of man
most closely resembles that of plants. So between synthetics and the
naturals, which one should we think will cause the most side-effects ..
or contraindications? Easy to answer this one is.

> Many phytomedicine texts and books on phytopharmacology will
> also include information on possible interactions and
> contraindications between various herbs and herbal preparations."

Maybe .. I can't comment on this as I don't read many phytomedicine
texts. Hopefully someone else can comment.

> Question: Out of the many reference books available at places
> like The American Botanical Council to cross-reference eo's with
> pharmaceutical drugs, what are some recommendations that I might
> study further? I do not wish to spend money on books that are not
> correct or really helpful.

I have no idea.

> Well this has gotten long enough even though I am sure there are
> many more questions that I have.

OK. ;-p I'm glad you took the time to ask these questions. Learning
comes from inquiry .. and replying to inquiry. I had to put my dusty
thinking cap on to reply to this. ;-)

> Thanks in advance,

Welcome you are .. and I wish I had more to add. I can refer you to an
article written by Martin Watt .. it was published in the last edition
of the IFA journal. I don't totally agree with his opinion on drinking
hydrosols .. but I agree with pretty much everything else. And the need
to test hydrosols is a logical given though I doubt you'll find many
folks around who can show you a certificate of testing .. we have ours
tested every 90 days at Superior Laboratories, Inc. which has EPA and
USDA Accreditation, located at 2514 Billingsley Rd, Columbus, OH, (614)
793-8778. The last testing was conducted on 30 September 2002.

http://www.aromamedical.demon.co.uk/new/hydrolates.htm

> Cheryl Smith
> Anchorage AK

Regards and y'all keep smiling, Butch http://www.AV-AT.com

Bulk/Wholesale/Retail GC Tested EO, Rose Otto, Hydrosols and other nice
things shipped to you from downtown Friendsville, MD .. pop: 600